Sad but true, some marketing agencies try to sell services to clients based on what is best and most important for the agency, not their client. When and how do you know you made the mistake of partnering with the wrong agency for the wrong reasons, based on what seems like a solid selling point?
Today 's guest is John Bertino, Founder and CEO of The Agency Guy (TAG ), a marketing consulting firm that connects clients to agencies. John knows what it takes to build a successful client / agency relationship and what businesses and marketers need to consider when buying an agency.
Powered by PodcastMotor Actionable content marketing powered by CoSchedule By CoSchedule AMP180: What 's Wrong With The Traditional Marketing Agency And The Customer Relationship Model (And How To Fix It) With John Bertino Of The 'agence Guy 00:00 / 00:00 1x Download file Subscribe on iTunes Exit examSome of the show's highlights include:
- TAG model: check out brands of all sizes to demystify marketing channels
- Main problems: too many marketing teams, specialties and biased advice
- Problems: Rapid growth by sacrificing the fundamentals of business operations
- Inexperience and cheap: you get what you pay for
- Education and expectations: speak transparently, not above people's heads
- How to be a better customer? Be willing and ready to learn
- How do I choose an agency? Consider personality, service and teamwork
- Good practices: slow, controlled and methodical growth; Prioritize clients
- Recruitment process: prioritize communication
- 4 steps to worry-free marketing:
- Start a conversation with a tag
- Create a high level custom policy
- Connect with a proven and verified partner
- Measure performance to produce results
If you liked today 's show, please subscribe on iTunes to The Actionable Content Marketing Podcast! The podcast is also available on SoundCloud, Stitcher , and Google Play .
Quotes from John Bertino:- " Make sure brands invest in the right marketing strategies, the right marketing channels and ultimately with the right teams. "
- " The advice and guidance that brands receive comes from a subjective source and of course our model is designed to be extremely objective. "
- " They often try to find the cheapest or cheapest solution to their marketing problems, and rarely, if ever, is this the right way to go. "
- " The trend that I see in agencies is to hire higher level staff, and they pay more to get them, they have happier clients. "
Transc ript:
Ben: Could you please present and simply share what you do with our listeners?
John: Sure, Ben, and thanks for inviting me. My name is John Bertino, founder and CEO of a company called The Agency Guy. We are based in Philadelphia these days, which is our headquarters, but we originally started a business six years ago in San Diego and currently have offices in both. We have unique marketing advice. Should I dig in there?
Ben: Yeah, absolutely. I would love to hear about it.
John: Ok, cool. Unique Council, as I said, we are a collective of five experienced digital marketing executives, each of us with at least a decade or more of experience, either in marketing or providing services. marketing for clients, either in agency ourselves. We are backed by a collection of around 200 carefully selected agencies and consultants.selected.
What we do and what is our model, is to look at brands of all sizes. We really look at brands that are from little mom and pop up to the corporate level. We have great testimonials on our site from great customers. We consult clients generally on a complimentary, i.e. free of charge, basis with the main purpose of helping demystify some of the different marketing channels and to ensure that brands are investing in the right marketing strategies. , the right marketing channels and, ultimately, the right people. In many ways, it's almost like we're an interim volunteer marketing director for a week or a month as we help guide them through this process.
Ben: It just connect customers not only with agencies, mais with the right agencies and the right talent.
John: That's right and taking great care to make sure they put it on. money in the right channels to start. We spend as much time convincing people to invest in certain channels as we do dissuading them from investing in certain channels.
Ben: Sometimes it's necessary too.
John: Yeah, if you're a good consultant you absolutely should be doing this.
Ben: Absolutely. I think this is an area in which you obviously have a lot of experience and I think you are very well qualified to answer this next question. What are the top three issues you face with traditional agency clients, the marketing model, or the marketing relationship?
John: First and foremost, the one big problem and the central problem we set out to solve is the fact that there are too many marketing teams. entry barriers to calling you an agency or consultant are incredibly low. They are virtually non-existent if we're honest about it. Because of these low entry barriers or non-existent barriers to entry entry, there are just too many teams.
The landscape is extremely crowded, and the marks if they haven't been burnt already are probably set to burn themselves and are frustrated. Those who have been through this mess with this are extremely frustrated. This is the biggest problem and the one we are looking to solve, but a few side effects of this situation, if you will, is that to start, a lot of agencies will give biased advice based on whatwhat they're good at, and I think a lot of them don't even realize it.
There is this strange situation that occurs when the advice and guidance that brands receive comes from a subjective source, and of course our model is designed to be extremely objective. These are the big problems that we are going through. Does something else come to your mind at your question about challenges and problems?
Ben: Yes.
John: I've found that with a lot of these little boutique teams trying to grow as fast as possible, and in that process sacrificing all kinds of things which are basically a key to just running a business, they are more focused on the trend, the desire for marketing services, the need for marketing services, because there are a lot of them and they grow too fast, and a lot of them. 'them hire inexpensive workers to performto keep prices low.
Let me put it all together. There is this trend, people need to eting. They know digital marketing is hot. It 's fair, SEO, Pay-Per-Click, Web. Everyone needs it, everyone wants it. There's that low barrier to entry, everyone is offering to do it, and then the best people often work the sales calls or the face to face people who phone you or the owner themselves. But then when the customer arrives, he passes over to an entry level, lower level employee who can't speak, doesn't really know what's going on, and he became a customer in the first place, and that relies on the clients themselves, as they were drawn to the low prices, but often times those low prices are manifested in the support you actually get from the agency itself.
Ben: Absolutely. That's a lot, you get what you pay for.
John: 100%, and for some reason I'm sure you've been through this. For some reason brands don't think that doesn't apply to marketing, and they often try to find the lowest or cheapest solution to their marketing problems, and rarely, if ever, is this the right way to go about it.
Ben: It 's interesting. that this is a common problem, and I guess, but I'll let you answer. Some that probably just came from, like I'm a marketing manager, I have limited resources and have stretched as far as I can , so the low dollar agency offered starts to look pretty good under these circumstances. How do you get companies away from that?u one really thinks, oh, well, this other agency told me they could do anything for $ 1000 a month. How do you get people out of this state of mind and tell them the hard truth that if they want quality and results, they are going to have to pay for it?
John: It's not easy, but I'll say it's less of a problem with marketing managers on which ones you put it on, because usually, it isn't always the case, that marketer knows best. They know what it takes. It's more of a problem when a business owner takes care of agency procurement and tries to cut costs, but doesn't really understand marketing. It is more often the symptom of when he is not a real marketer or an inexperienced professional.
We find a lot of situations where the person has been loadedof doing marketing in a company and then hiring the marketing support. In companies that pay $ 1 million, $ 2 million, $ 10 million a year, they will often still have one person responsible for everything. In situations like this, often where this person doesn't really know what it takes to get results with an inbound marketing strategy, an SEO strategy, they are less informed than they should be. be with the pay-per-click strategy. This is what the landscape looks like. Your question was, I believe, how do you help educate them?
Ben: Uh-hmm.
John: My answer was that it wasn 't easy. I think the first thing to do is take the time to speak transparently about what is going on, while making a point not to try to speak above the head.e people, or impress them with fancy marketing jargon, entering this, omnichannel that, and I don't even know. I was trying to use so little jargon that it didn't even come naturally to me, but a willingness to take the time and educate which is a recurring theme for us. It starts with that.
Ben: I love this tip. I think if we're talking to marketers about marketing, that jargon would make a lot more sense. But you say omnichannel to a normal person and it's like, oh, no idea what that is.
John: It 's right. You must segment by audience figure based on their position in the buyer journey. It doesn't do much good unless the person on the other end of the phone is really following you. I think for some - not everyone, but for some - the strategy ofThe sale is, hey, if I throw up bad words that sound appealing, I'm going to sound like I know what I'm talking about no matter if they get it. In fact, maybe it’s better if they don’t, and that will help me win this deal. In the end, that doesn't set the right expectations because the person on the other end of the phone didn't understand what you were really saying. If I could choose one thing that results in a successful customer relationship, it is setting the right expectations.
Ben: Setting expectations, obviously, is huge, because everything you do from this moment begins with that. I think that leads to the next question. If I'm an internal marketer, and listen to this, and maybe I'm someone who, at some level, would be responsible for hiring outside marketing support, to some extent . What are some things that youWould we recommend that I do so that on the client side I can help set mutually understood expectations? How do I communicate my expectations and how do I set reasonable expectations for what I think an agency can accomplish?
John: Essentially, the crux of your question is, how can the customer be a better customer, or is essentially how, what are some tips for choosing the right agency? Which direction should I go with this?
Ben: I would take it more in the sense of like, if I am a customer, how can I be make sure I am a good customer? If this relationship isn't working, how do I know that at least I have done what I should have done within reason, to prepare myself and the agency for success?
John: The first thing I sayais is to be coachable. Be coachable. Try to get the ego out of it. Ego is such a dirty word that I feel in our society, but we all have it. If you look at the classic definition, if I could just take a little detour here. The classic definition of ego, which comes from Eastern philosophy, is less of a boast, it is more of a perception of ourselves that we cling to. We want to try to suppress this tendency to cling to a perception of ourselves as the smartest guy in the room, where agencies are necessarily equal.
The agency is supposed to be your strategist, you hire them for their expertise. If you think you've made the right decision, try to put the ego aside - we are now talking about the client side - and be receptive and coachable, be willing and ready to learn. That would be the first thing I would say. This is probably partintegral to that before you even hire the agency to get back to this recurring theme of being both coachable, but also, I'm going to use the word to learn it, try to be educated from the start. Don't go into a complex purchase without having any knowledge or training on what you are going to buy. I think we all know the pitfalls. In fact, I touched on them earlier trying to get all of your knowledge from the salesperson you are dealing with. You should first go through the recruiting process by being aware and aware of yourself, or being aware of things like the pros and cons of different marketing channels, for example.
For example, paid media versus SEO, versus entry, and branding. Try to be self-taught on what really goes into these different marketing channels, the benefitsand the disadvantages of all, and they all have advantages. This will help you have more realistic expectations - there is that phrase again - and better discern whether you are getting good advice and recommendations from the agency or consultant who is trying to sell you their services.
Finally, an integral part of this idea of being educated, being at least partially self-taught will help you to define a more realistic budget. Not only should you have a realistic budget, but you should have a somewhat defined budget, and I see him all the time as someone who connects agencies with brands that the buyer is often very careful about. with what he has to spend. This does not exactly define the expectation of the best success.
I get it, you try to be careful, you don't want to show your cards, you tryz to dance a bit. But when the agency has no idea what you're willing to invest, they'll basically tend to offer you the lowest price they're comfortable with, but that doesn't mean that this is necessarily the best price to get the results. you want. In fact, the two are rarely the same.
I think if you are more honest about the results you want to accomplish, and then at least give it away. leave a certain margin for what you are comfortable spending, you will not only be able to better prepare a plan that suits your expectations, you will be able to save yourself time, if they cannot achieve what you're looking for, at the pace you're looking for.
Ben: Something worth keeping in mind that you are working in an agency or whether you buy an agency, it 's this tendance agencies to rely on their own strengths, rather than trying to match their available services to a client's needs. .
What's interesting about this, however, is that agencies often like John says, they are not always aware that they are falling into this trap themselves. It would be very cynical to believe that the majority of agencies are just here to get your money for whatever real value they may provide, and I don't think that's the case, and I don't think John does. believes. that 's what the agencies are trying to do either.
Having said that, it is very important for you to be a smart marketer, a smart trade operator, and know simply what you are looking for when looking for agencies, but also agencies, whether for agency owners or those whowork in an agency, to really know what your strengths are, and to be honest about it. You can prepare yourself and your customers for success. Either way, I think the easiest way to say it is that you better know yourself.
Let's say I 'm even in home marketing. I did my due diligence, did my research. I know roughly what I 'm buying. What would be the top three things you would recommend looking for when looking for an agency?
John: Good. I love this question because you are going to get different things from me than I think you would get from cliché things. A quick google search will reveal things that I don't disagree with, like looking at case studies, asking for references, what their references are,its like that, and i think those are all good ideas. Let me give you some next level tips. If I could, that's what I'm here for. I 'm the guy from the agency.
Ben: Yeah.
John: The first one and might sound redundant, but I would say it 's the number one thing in more than being coachable, you should look for an agency ready to coach you. I would avoid an agency that is too quick to say, yes we have this thing called SEO. It will take you up the ranks. We charge X dollars per month or whatever. Listen, I appreciate the frankness and the frankness, but if you have any questions as a buyer you should ask them and you should look for someone who is ready to give you a clear, transparent and methodical answer. , rather than someone trying to talk about your head, or rather than someone yougive the answer short and quick.
Look for someone who is ready to give you some advice and ideas, because it is a good indication that this is how the agency works, they want you to understand, they want to teach you, they want to work in tandem with you for a successful partnership, so this is the first one.
Other things, which I think are a little less obvious, I always recommend to the buyer of 'trying to put the person on the phone during the sales process they would actually work with. I referred to this earlier, these agencies, even though they are good, great, ethical, perfect teams, they always tend to put their best speakers on the phone, and that's almost all the time. you go. work with.
We believe firmLies here at The Agency Guy that the personality of your agency matters, but one of many ways that 90% or 75% of the personality really comes down to who you work for. Regardless of the culture of an organization, regardless of the culture of the president, while these things matter, the person you work with in many ways is your impression of this agency to try and call them on the phone. Finally, you asked for three things, so I'll give you a third.
I would look for agencies which are called fu ll service. I know you referred to it earlier, or I think you referred to it. I want to make a few caveats here to be fair. First off, there are a few teams that really do a great job of full service, but generally they're bigger. By taller, we will define tall as 35 people over, even if that pushes itwould become a true, full-service, small omnichannel agency.
Agencies with less than 35 employees, be careful if they say full service. Some of these teams when they say full service they try to be quick and quick to say that we can find a way to solve all your needs, whether through our partners or whatever, but there, It's not the same thing . It is one thing to be a full service, it is another thing to have partners who help you to execute certain things.
In general, a team that is small and claims to be full service is generally going to disappoint you. Here's a pro tip for you on that point. If an agency tells you that they offer full service, you have a hard time understanding what they are really good at. A simple but effective hack is to accessto their website and looking at their navigation, and the four main things that they present in their navigation are actually the areas that they like to focus on and do best. If they have 10 service offers, those last 3, 4, 5 will be the lowest.
Ben: It 's so simple. It’s so revealing of their situation and what they see as their own priorities. I think that 's super smart, and to flip that over to the agency side a bit. For our agency listeners on the show, what three tips would you offer them just for simple things they can do to just improve the way they handle customer relationships and the way they interact with them? their clients? What can they do to make sure that t hey are doing what they should be doing, to make sure the customer gets what they should get out of this rel?ation?
John: There is more than one way to skin a cat, there is more than 'a way to develop an agency. These are by no means what I believe are best practices, best practices for everyone. Let's just say that right off the bat. I believe in slow, controlled and orderly growth. Attention to detail and puts the customer first, but as crazy as it sounds, not all agencies see it that way. They don't care about it, many think it's unrealistic and it's great for them.
For those who resonate with; slow, controlled and methodical growth that puts the customer at the forefront. Here's what I would say one, set clear expectations. Have I said this before?
Ben: Detection of a theme.
John: Yeah, but I cannot stress it enough. You will get less unhappy customers if your sales and line staff, account managers, project managers are very focused on setting clear and honest expectations, and taking the time to educate, so many recurring themes. Here are three things I haven't talked about yet. On that note, when hiring I recommend that you prioritize communication in the recruiting process because what I've seen over and over with agencies that are really good, really strong, really know what it is. 'They do is the people who actually interact with the accounts are not great communicators.
This is a bit lacking in the current generation, say 22 to 32, and I don't want to choose this bracket of age, but it is just a known fact that communication skills are not asstrong in this age group, and nothing loses clients faster than someone who cannot clearly articulate concepts, but also just not a good communicator. What I see again, really good agencies is that they hire people who are good subject matter experts, and that's certainly a great thing, but they will still lose clients because that their staff just aren't good communicators, so that would be number one.
Likewise, building on this, my experience has been representing some 200 different agencies and consultants. We've been doing this for six years, prior to that I was in marketing departments for almost a decade. In my experience, teams that pay more and have more experienced staff perform better and retain customers than those that - we referred to this earlier.t - who hire more entry-level employees, fewer employees to keep prices low.
It 's almost one to one that when the prices are really low the support staff are more junior. When the support staff are younger, my experience is that the job suffers. The trend that I see in agencies is the ones that hire more top staff, and they pay more to get them, they have happier clients.
Finally, another point would be this notion of full service agency The flip side is that I would say to agencies, in general, it is not a good idea to try to offer full service or position yourself as full service. There I can hear the moans and moans on the other end of the podcast, and people calling BS. That 's fine. You want to offer full service, full service, but the agencies that I have seen that grow the fastest in a controlled and methodical way and that are the most successful are the ones that position themselves as a niche and there are two different ways of doing it. be a niche. , and you can be both.
It 'sa niche in terms of supply, you can be a SEO focus team when you start . We are mainly talking about your early years. You can be a brand-focused agency when you start out, or you can be nested in terms of the vertical. You can be health specific, you can be software specific, you can be real estate specific. These agencies clean because they clearly know who they are and what they are good at, and they have this specialization that helps them win deals.
Believe me, I'm the guy who connects thes brands with agencies as agencies with specialization in the sector that the client wants to win more often. It almost seems obvious coming out of my mouth, and yet most agencies do the opposite of specializing. There would be my three tips for young agencies.
Ben: That 's about it for all the questions I ' ve prepared for you. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. Before I let you go, I just want to ask you if there is anything like anything else relevant to an area of this conversation that you feel is really important to you that you haven't had a chance to get out of. ?
John: I would say the process that we have labeled, the way we make sure the brands get the right ones agencies, is the process that we call four steps for a marketingwithout worry. It starts with our ability to sit down with that brand, take the time to understand them, the resources they have or don't have in-house, which is most of the workforce. , things they are able or unable to do. Then, essentially creating a high-level, personalized strategy, which involves on-boarding a team that complements the resources they have or don't have, makes sense in areas where they need help. If they are coachable, they will be prepared for us to make recommendations on where we think they are going to get the best bang for their buck, et cetera, and so on.
The third step is to connect them with a proven partner who we know thrives in these areas and ideally , prosperous in its sector. Fourth, we seek to measure performance, we expectthat the agency is delivering results and we follow up on our side with both parties to make sure they do.
We feel that with this four-step process of consulting, personalized strategy and partner performance As an agency, we are preparing most brands for success. This is our goal, and this is our process, and we encourage anyone who would like a free consultation to contact. So we have the opportunity to make sure they invest in the right strategies with the right partners.
Ben: Thanks again for coming on the show, and take care of everything. is happening right now.
John: Go do. I appreciate that you welcome me. If anyone needs more information, they can go to theagencyguy.com/coschedule.
April 14, 2020
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